More Fom Richard Butler
Here, by popular request (well somebody asked!) is some more of the very revealing interview with Richard Bulter that appeared on New Zealand's National Radio last week. This installment looks at Scott Ritter and... well, read on:
Presenter: this question of where the weapons of mass destruction are and what weapons there still are, we had Scott Ritter on this Programme.. I mean you’ll know well. Now I mean, here is someone who says that from a qualitative standpoint Iraq has already been disarmed. You don’t accept that?
Butler: oh, I’m sorry to hear that you were subjected to that. I mean I know Scott well and I saw him a few weeks ago in New York and he remains as lost as he has been since he resigned from UNSCOM. One of Scott’s last actions when he worked for me at UNSCOM was to send me a paper saying the Iraqis are lying, they have this, that and the other weapons and I demand that you allow me go and find them; and I declined to allow him to behave in the way he wanted to because it was just a bit too aggressive, and he then resigned and a few months later he’s decided to tell the world, as he continues to do, that all of that was untrue and Iraq doesn’t have any weapons. So, you know, Scott was either misleading me when he worked for me, or he’s subsequently misleading the public and I can assure you I know he wasn’t misleading me. I don’t know why he’s saying these things. You know, I share his passion for avoiding war if we can, but I don’t think that purpose is served by speaking in a misleading fashion and that’s what he’s done for some time now, and I deeply regret it.
Presenter: so at the point when you and the other weapons inspectors pulled out last time round, the situation was what? I mean his version is that between 90 and 95% of the weapons of mass destruction, at that time had been destroyed. Would you put it that high?
Butler: oh, this.. It’s nonsense. I mean quite frankly I despair a little that we’re wasting valuable time in talking about Ritter’s claims. I was just..
Presenter: the only reason I asked you about it.. Sorry to interrupt You..
Butler: but I just said to you a moment.. And please don’t interrupt me. I said to you a moment ago that he’s actually misleading the public. Now, we could waste a lot of time going into that, root and branch. Suffice to say this, that a very hostile Security Council in 1999, a Council that wished this whole problem would go away, when confronted with the facts, actually decided that… No, they couldn’t do that because it was the case that Iraq still retained weapons of mass destruction, and that was in circumstances where the Security Council really, truly, deeply wished that this weren’t the case and wanted some way to paper it over and have it go away. Now.. But they couldn’t because the facts were staring them in the face. Scott Ritter’s claims about those facts are nonsense and it’s not worth our time talking about them.
Presenter: the context in New Zealand is that we have a Prime Minister who has adopted the French line of saying there is no evidence at this point in time that military action is necessary and, to a large degree, the New Zealand public have accepted that; because they haven’t been given another story, I guess. That’s where the.. That’s the context of Scott Ritter’s comments in the New Zealand environment are I suppose, is that at the moment you’re talking to a group of listeners who are not yet convinced that the weapons of mass destruction are there.
Butler: well, they’re wrong. And you see you’re mixing up.. You know, you’re mixing up two things, which is the fact of the weapons of mass destruction and the usefulness of military action. What I was trying to say to you is this: Iraq does have weapons of mass destruction. That’s a fact. I mean for God’s Sake even they admitted today. Why the hell are they doing what they are doing? With the Al Samoud missiles, with the VX disposal, with the biological weapons. Can’t you see, they themselves are admitting that they have them, now that their backs are against the wall, trying to avoid war; they themselves are admitting that they lied. That’s the whole thing that we see unfolding now in Baghdad. So my point is, it’s not a question of whether or not Iraq has such weapons, it clearly does. That should not be confused however, with the idea that says because they do, the only way to fix it is to go to war. There I tend to agree with Helen Clark: I don’t think it is the only way to fix it. I think war is a terrible thing and it should be more than the rhetorical last resort, we should strive to find other ways to deal with it but you will not deal with this problem accurately if you start from the premise, Scott Ritter’s or anyone else’s, that Iraq doesn’t have weapons of mass destruction. In the name of God, they themselves are today admitting that they do. The issue is to find a way to deal with that without going to war.